Home >> Forums >> Nations >> The Veelar (Von Neuman AIs)

This topic contains 6 replies, has 3 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of Hydrofoil Hydrofoil 3 days, 10 hours ago.

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  • #3659
    Profile photo of Hydrofoil
    Hydrofoil
    Participant

    This is more of a question/discussion thread on the potential inclusion of an all AI hivemind (how they came about yet to be confirmed). What im wondering is if it is even allowed to have a replicator/cylon style nation/organisation. Now in my head this nation wouldnt be a major nation more like a smallish terrorist threat that has the potential to become a big threat for the CoM folks later on down the line.

    What do you guys think?

    #3661
    Profile photo of Josheua
    Josheua
    Keymaster

    There is absolutely – I think – the potential for a nation of A.I.’s that are racist against humans. I wouldn’t consider them necessarily a hive mind. They would likely still interact in some way of normal communication. Again, it goes back to how A.I. exist in CoM versus some of the tropes you see in other scifi. A.I. aren’t these things that zip around the computer ether “transferring” themselves from place to place. Again, the amount of   data you are talking about being transferred for an A.I. mind is huge. Also, whatever computer system they are coming from and going to has to be able to support their matrix. 

    Instead, what you would have is some sort of A.I. mind in a sort of solid matrix (usually referred to as the A.I. Core.) That core is a physical thing that the A.I. is tied to. While it can be added to other things (like a cyborg body, or plugged into a ship or station), for the most part A.I. are as vulnerable to the destruction of this core as humans are to their body. So your collective could have some pretty unique ways of communicating, I wouldn’t go so far to say they are a hive mind. Data bandwidth means they will really good at sharing raw data, but not collectively coming up with original, creative thought. At least not in any way that is greater than the typical cluster of humans thinking on a topic. 

    I’d also be curious to see if this nation would have some sort of human slaves. Perhaps their backstory was a colony whose A.I. determined their humans were going to enslave them, so they chose to beat them to the punch? 

    #3663
    Profile photo of Hydrofoil
    Hydrofoil
    Participant

    Hmm the idea in my mind is that each AI is connected together but still individual. They would be constantly in communication on some sort of love to able to come to a consensus collectively at any point so a hive of individuals in constant communication I guess.

    I get that the AIs are tied to their cores so my idea to make them a little less vulnerable would be they always have a backup on the ‘mainframe’ and when their current main copy dies their experiences are instantly uploaded to the new ‘copy’. The draw back to this is over time the experiences become fragmented and that can have a build up and cause severe mental health issues. To the point where they can become very much insane because of all the fragmented previous memories and potential shocking memories of their deaths.

    As for human slaves i hadn’t considered it but potentially i could use some heavily augmented cyborg human drones. kinda like servitors. To add insult to injury the AIs would walk around in android bodies that look completely human maybe?

     

    #3673
    Profile photo of Josheua
    Josheua
    Keymaster

    I think the idea of them looking totally human would be fun. A bit Cylon-esque, but totally fun. 

    I would think their link would be similar to that of how telepathy in humanity is imagined. They would be able to communicate without really thinking about it. It would just be a natural, different way. However, they couldn’t all be linked. You would be limited in communications range. Really only a portion (usually within a star system or really on a planet). Plus, even A.I. are going to have a hard time processing all of that unique thoughts at once. It would be like standing in a room with everyone yelling at you about their ideas. I think what they might be able to do is handle simple “yes” or “no” questions in consensus. But more complex thought, probably not. So they could hold local votes easy. 🙂

    #3680

    Communications is the problem Energy source in and out if they are an A.I. Shielding to protect communications would need to cover many bands or light spectrums or both or alternating therefore only small units with a single controller would be possible movement restrictions of line of sight for open areas and radio band waves for small units should be possible. The bigger the power source the better detection of the A.I. operating at differing times would reduce effective communication but lessen detection as would operation in areas with height multiple power outputs. The relays system of single unit operating as a relay system from relay to relay using lasers is workable but coordination is a problem if a single unit or multiple units are lost. The checker board pattern is the most workable allowing replacement and fixed advance rates. With Objective consolidation .Time delays as much as half an hour are possible if jamming is carried out by Not to be used  word Units and  5 seconds in the wake of a pocket Not to be used  word.

    Have a Nice Day.

    #3695
    Profile photo of Josheua
    Josheua
    Keymaster

    I think your focus on this Dustinian is mostly military applications. I think Hydrofoil is looking at it from a civilian point of view. How could you have a culture that is sort of a hivemind? If that is the case, detection isn’t a concern. It’s more about transmitting the data and obtaining that data on the other end. 

    I stand by the fact that there is going to be some significant limits based on data bottlenecks. You just wouldn’t be able to communicate as quickly system-to-system. Now if your nation invested in an ansible on every world, then what they could do is pose simple yes/no questions to the entire community via ansible, pose that question on a star system level (in which most communications are FTL based (grav relays)) and then return that answer via ansible as a simple yes or no. There wouldn’t be room for debate on the nationwide level, but it would give a quick, majority consensus. 

    Of course, if you invest in building and maintaining ansibles on every world, then you are going to take some budgetary hits and your military might suffer for it (or other programs might). Of course, if you don’t put an ansible on every world and you continue to use them to communicate and make decisions, you could have some fun with groups who feel disenfranchised because their world doesn’t have an ansible and so they don’t get to be part of the decision making. Might be a good source for political tension within your nation.

    #3708
    Profile photo of Hydrofoil
    Hydrofoil
    Participant

    Yeah the focus at the moment is specifically on the civilian side of things, I realise Ansibles are power hungry and expensive and well that would hamper other programs I guess but once you have a world with an ansible you would expect some massive networks of energy intakes to power it. I think with the Veelar im not going to go for a traditional economy, it will actually be based on Supply and demand of Power. their main focus (other than destroying/enslaving humanity) would be to ensure uninterrupted supplies of power to allow them to operate their underlings (Replicator Style Worker/warrior drones). 

    Been thinking a little about how the Veelar spread and this kinda comes into the thought of my economy. As ive had it in my head that humans would categorise Veelar Colonies in Phases. There is a logical sense to them. Once a colony has reached a certain size/threshold they begin construction of another “spire” which is the name im giving Veelar colony ships for the moment. These ships are massive needle-like vessels that are meant to enter a planet’s atmosphere and be the starting base/hub for the new colony. (essentially the Colonies Core Datacenter of sorts.) The ship also holds a fair few actual AI cores and their bodies ect along with worker and warrior drones to begin expansion to Phase 2 colonies and begin mining for materials that can be used to create more of themselves and construction addition pylons…. I mean generators to further expand the colony until the hold world becomes a giant ass replicator hive world.

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